Hi folks,
Perhaps there is a bit of Bike shedding  going on but I think the comment
/ advice about not changing defaults is superfluous

folks the default partition layout (offsets not being on 2MB  or 4096Byte
Boundaries
and the fact that partition layouts need to be optimised... (a server that
hosts files vs a router)...

also somewhere in my head I like turning off services I dont use  (sndiod
gets turned off on my routers )   (sorry)

just my 2 cents for what it is worth...

Tom

On Sat, 25 Apr 2026 at 07:26, Rene Kita <mail@rkta.de> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 25, 2026 at 07:44:31AM +0200, Christian Schulte wrote:
> > Am 25.04.2026 um 04:40 schrieb Evan Silberman:
> > > Christian Schulte <cs@schulte.it> wrote:
> > >> There shouldn't be "a whole world of issues" and I'd rather ask about
> > >> what issues the user ran into. What issues are those? I mean, running
> > >> pkg_add to add a package depending on something not installed will
> > >> produce corresponding error messages and not leave the system in a
> > >> "whole world of issues" state.
> > >
> > > Sure, but 100% of the time when someone writes in saying "I didn't
> > > install xbase/comp/games and X doesn't work" the only viable advice is
> > > "install all the sets". It is a common newbie footgun to install fewer
> > > than all of the sets, in no small part (I imagine) because the
> installer
> > > invites you to select sets. If you just keep hitting enter, you will of
> > > course get all the sets, but given that you are prompted to think about
> > > it, and even given an example command to enter if you want to deselct
> > > all the X sets, it's not surprising that many people think "ah, I guess
> > > this is good to do" when configuring a server installation.
> >
> > Someone with a passion for tweaking knobs without knowing what those
> > knobs are meant to be used for maybe should not tweak knobs (or should
> > not have the ability to blindly tweak knobs in the first place, I agree).
> > >
> > > Outside of people with extraordinary disk space constraints who are
> > > willing to solve all of their own resulting problems, everyone should
> be
> > > installing all the sets. Every time someone really starts insisting
> that
> > > something should _work_ without X/comp/games, or that sysupgrade
> > > shouldn't install all the sets, Theo threatens to merge all the sets
> > > into one set and have done.
> >
> > Don't know. Maybe he will be more interested in things like "you cannot
> > build xenocara on a clean slate without running pgk_add xmlto, because
> > xenocara has a build dependency on xmlto only available in ports".
> >
> > >
> > > I've contemplated how install.sub could change to make it more likely
> > > that well-meaning new admins will install all the sets. Something like
> > > instead of always prompting you to select sets, add a prompt like
> > > `ask_yn "Install complete base system?" yes` and not present the
> > > selection UI to people who are just hitting enter. Anyone who types
> "no"
> > > can get the set selection prompt with a warning that any customized
> > > configuration is not tested or supported by the developers. I've never
> > > sent a patch for this b/c I haven't ever had the gumption to give
> myself
> > > a good way of testing changes to install.sub.
> >
> > Honestly, I never blindly accept any defaults offert to me by any means
> > and just hit enter or accept them. Someone installing OpenBSD for the
> > first time feeling the need to already tweak knobs in the installer
> > maybe is just used to having to tweak knobs and maybe needs guiding away
> > from such habits in some way.
>
> As someone who came from Linux, which is probably true for close to 100%
> of all users, where installing without a X window system is a totally
> normal thing to do, I of course tweaked the knob. Why should I install
> something I know I don't need?
>
> Only after running into some problems (that I forgot) I found out that
> installing without X is not totally normal for OpenBSD. As a new user
> there is already enough new information to digest. If having having all
> sets selected is such important it should be made clear. I agree with
> Evan, ideally the UI should be made so that users are guided in the
> right direction.
>
>

-- 
Kindest regards,
Tom Smyth.